Michael Mowbray (00:00:05) - And recorded live from the back of the Mystery Machine. It's the Photo Happy Hour podcast. Hey and welcome, everybody. Come on in and grab a seat at the bar. I'm your photo happy hour bartender Michael Mowbray. Joining me behind the bar are Dan Faribault and Carl Kaler. Hey, I was.

Carl Caylor (00:00:30) - Actually more on the side of the bar instead of behind it, but. All right, that's fine. Okay.

Michael Mowbray (00:00:34) - As long as you're not under it.

Dan Frievalt (00:00:36) - Not yet.

Michael Mowbray (00:00:37) - Or on it.

Dan Frievalt (00:00:39) - Yeah. Hey. What? Forget it.

Michael Mowbray (00:00:45) - Well, here's a question for you guys because this is a photo happy hour. And, you know, happy hour is a big part of this. So what if happy hour is over? Say it's 11:00 at night and you're finally out of, let's say, hypothetically, the Badger game that was played at night and you're hungry, but you want a beer. Where can you go?

Carl Caylor (00:01:07) - The refrigerator?

Michael Mowbray (00:01:08) - No at all. Refrigerator's a long ways away. You're still in a different town.

Michael Mowbray (00:01:12) - You're in, you're in. Let's say, hypothetically, Madison, after a hypothetical Badger game, where can you go to get food and a beer at 11:00 at night?

Carl Caylor (00:01:24) - Oh, there's lots of I mean, think of all the tailgating going on. We'll just go in the cars and.

Michael Mowbray (00:01:29) - No, all the tailgaters are done. They all left and they're going to give you food.

Carl Caylor (00:01:34) - Don't know I'm out of it.

Dan Frievalt (00:01:37) - Three kitchen.

Michael Mowbray (00:01:39) - BW three.

Dan Frievalt (00:01:40) - Pwt bw. Yeah.

Michael Mowbray (00:01:43) - Buffalo wild wings. They serve food until like 1:00 in the morning. Had a cheeseburger around midnight and was like, oh, that was awesome.

Dan Frievalt (00:01:52) - That's a common sound. Everybody should be that way.

Michael Mowbray (00:01:55) - Yeah, but they'll shut down the grills. You can still get beer after nine 10:00, but a lot of them turned on. Turn off the grills at 9 or 10. Yeah, that was the dilemma.

Dan Frievalt (00:02:09) - When I used to and I would at this bar and at like 1:00, they would crank the pizza ovens on and throw a pizza in the genius.

Dan Frievalt (00:02:24) - Because. Yeah. Yep. Pizza after pizza. I mean, they could just not keep up making pizzas from from 1:00 until 2:00. It's like they they made so much money on pizzas.

Michael Mowbray (00:02:38) - So let's transition this to like, the regular podcast. Oh, one thing we can talk about today is, you know, pizzas after midnight. What can you do in your business that makes you unique and takes advantage of your situation, whether it's timing or whatever else? Mm. I don't know what the answer is, but everybody should have something. Have you given that thought? Is there some way that you can make yourself different, something you can do differently than everybody else? A service, product, whatever that is time sensitive? Right now, you know, I would say Christmas cards and Christmas photos because it's time sensitive and you've got a hard deadline where you've got to get things done. So, you know, a lot of times people put off their family photos. It's like, oh, well, you know, we'll do that in the spring or we'll do that in the summer.

Michael Mowbray (00:03:32) - Well, if you want Christmas cards this year, you got to do it now. I don't know. It's just a random thought.

Dan Frievalt (00:03:39) - Yeah. Mean that's what I love about senior. The senior business is the scarcity factor. Like you know it's built in. They have to get it. At least in the north where we are, where we don't have contracts or contract photographers, we can submit any kind of yearbook image we want other than like some of the southern states, they're kind of that's built in. But for us, they have to submit a yearbook image. It's a, you know, certain time frame. They're graduating. It's just part of the process as well as like they have homecoming, they have prom, they have graduation photos, they have graduation party, yearbook deadlines. So yeah, mean that I love that built in scarcity. When we used to photograph children, it was similar when you had, you know, your first year, you know, your every three months baby pictures or whatever.

Dan Frievalt (00:04:33) - But after that, you know, and even that was sometimes hard because it's like, well, there's unexpected expenses that come up with having a child that's like, well, I'll put that off. So I've heard. Yeah, I don't know.

Michael Mowbray (00:04:47) - I'm just trying to picture you doing newborn photos right.

Dan Frievalt (00:04:51) - Right now. Yeah. 1 or 2 and like, no, it's it's fine. It's like like when.

Speaker 4 (00:04:59) - The smoke.

Carl Caylor (00:04:59) - Bombs and stuff, you know. So.

Dan Frievalt (00:05:01) - Yeah. Yeah. Well yeah. Well there you go. That's another thing. Like if you're going to do newborns, you know I'm going to have them in funky hair makeup and yeah smoke bombs going off I mean. Who did that with. Who is the photographer? That was it. Uh, I can't think of it now, but they would put the babies on the on the choppers and everything, and, like, really like, pretty rock and roll type.

Michael Mowbray (00:05:28) - Oh, I don't know. I kind of remember something like that, but I couldn't tell you who it was.

Michael Mowbray (00:05:33) - No, don't.

Carl Caylor (00:05:34) - Remember because they.

Dan Frievalt (00:05:34) - Also photographed the choppers like for that company. That that made them. Yeah. They were. Gosh, I can't remember. Photographer. But yeah, I mean that was like, hey, if I did newborns and that'd be it'd be rock and roll, of course. Scary. But yeah. Well I mean they had they had the precautions of course, but it wasn't just putting them in a, in a, in a soft pillow and, you know, rocking him to sleep. They were, they were on the leather seat of a chrome chopper with flames and brick background and gels and stuff going on. It's like.

Carl Caylor (00:06:12) - All right, we got the set ready. Tossed me that baby. Yeah.

Michael Mowbray (00:06:17) - Okay. Well, speaking of scary, speaking of flames and fire going to get controversial here. We'll probably get mail about this. Do people write letters anymore? Mail we're going to give out. We'll give out Dan's address anyway I have I obviously come down on one side of this.

Michael Mowbray (00:06:37) - There's been so much stuff in senior photography about the fire, you know, and not even senior.

Dan Frievalt (00:06:44) - It's the volume that's the volume.

Michael Mowbray (00:06:47) - Sports.

Dan Frievalt (00:06:48) - Two volume sports in an individual and I.

Michael Mowbray (00:06:53) - If he and I. Thursday and I.

Dan Frievalt (00:06:55) - Yeah.

Michael Mowbray (00:06:57) - Well yeah. Where they're doing I don't know. Like soap bubbles and butane or something like that. And lighting kids go see kids balls on fire. But that, that's even worse. Lighting like their hands on fire, like the football on fire, you know, and that kind of stuff has been done for years where you put a little rubber cement on it. I was never comfortable with that. No, you just need somebody to freak out and drop it and.

Carl Caylor (00:07:27) - Start the place on fire. Yeah.

Michael Mowbray (00:07:29) - And you're using background paper and that catches on fire. I mean, between that and the liability of if. What if he burned? But this is the quarterback and they burn their hand. You know I don't want to be part of that mean that that ends a business.

Michael Mowbray (00:07:43) - But but a lot of that going on and every time somebody talks about it in a forum, oh my gosh, the lines are drawn.

Dan Frievalt (00:07:53) - Oh yeah. Yeah. Just just a couple of weeks ago I deleted a post and seniors unlocked because the guy was asking about it and I said I deleted it. And, you know, you can send a message, you know, when you delete a post and said. This post is going to get out of control because it's a very, no pun intended, hot topic. But you know, you know, everyone's got their, you know, opinion on it and it's just no one's helping each other. It's one of those no win situation. So yeah. I mean, yeah, it's a liability wise. And even I think we've talked about this on the podcast, it's like I used to have seniors ride with me. Yeah, from location to location, because it was a way we'd get everyone in one vehicle. Parking was tough downtown. You could keep that dialogue going with them as you go from place to place and someone's like, well, what about what if you got in an accident? Like, what's your life? Oh, shoot.

Dan Frievalt (00:08:53) - You know, I never I never thought of that. Yeah.

Michael Mowbray (00:08:56) - I asked my insurance agent about that, and I quit taking people on my truck. Yep.

Dan Frievalt (00:09:01) - Yeah.

Carl Caylor (00:09:02) - Our insurance agent is a friend of ours, and she told us about it, and I'm like, whoa. So for a while, I actually. Knuckled under and bought the business insurance. But it's a lot more. And especially in Michigan, it's a real lot more. And it just, you know, it just didn't pay, you know, at the point, at one point. Just, you know what? Follow me. Um, it's not as much fun. Um.

Dan Frievalt (00:09:30) - I actually like it better. I do too. It gives. It gives me a chance to. As much as I'm in my head, like, it gives me a chance to kind of decompress and talk out loud. The next thing I'm going to do or talk to, you know, just like, oh, that's kind of sucked or where I'm going to go next or whatever.

Dan Frievalt (00:09:47) - I'm trying to, you know, I have a something in mind, but there's so many things I have to think about from point A to point B, I don't want to have a conversation with them. I can have that conversation. Then when we get out. Okay, now I got the plan for the next area. I know where I'm going. The lighting set can talk. So yeah, it was a nice break.

Michael Mowbray (00:10:08) - Just. Yeah. And along those lines, I don't have to be nice to somebody for ten minutes while we drive to a new lake. You know, it's like I need I need that break.

Dan Frievalt (00:10:18) - Yeah.

Michael Mowbray (00:10:18) - It takes everything I've got.

Dan Frievalt (00:10:21) - Plus, the mom would, you know, ask the same question all the time. How did you come up with these locations? Where where do you find these locations? You know, and I always had the same, you know, answer. Finding them as easy as remembering how to get back to them. That right.

Michael Mowbray (00:10:37) - Actually keeping all the other photographers out of there.

Dan Frievalt (00:10:41) - Yeah, right. Well.

Carl Caylor (00:10:43) - That's good luck with that.

Michael Mowbray (00:10:46) - Well, coming back to the fire thing.

Dan Frievalt (00:10:48) - Well, we'll come back to the fire, but real quick too. That's another thing. Like, as far as etiquette or, you know, for photographer etiquette, you know, we're talking liability and stuff for you. If you are photographing on location and just be have good photographer etiquette like don't be writing chalk. Or if you're lighting a smoke bomb off, make sure that powder doesn't stay in the brick building blowing.

Michael Mowbray (00:11:14) - Glitter and.

Carl Caylor (00:11:16) - Yeah, forever.

Dan Frievalt (00:11:17) - Yeah. Blocking. Blocking the entrance. Someone that's someone's business there. They want people to come into their business. And if you're there, oh, it's a cool door. But. But it's the door that gets into their restaurant. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Michael Mowbray (00:11:31) - Oh, I've seen even worse where photographers, photographers have a retail location and they have, you know, they put something in the back of the building, maybe in the alley that's kind of cool, or wall or, or graffiti or whatever or something.

Michael Mowbray (00:11:45) - And then other photographers come in and shoot on their stuff. Yeah. Well and it's like, and they say, well, it's because it's a public place. It's like, well yeah. No it isn't, it isn't, it isn't. I mean, if, if you're standing on public land and it's behind you and it's just shitty, don't do it. Yeah. Don't be one of those.

Dan Frievalt (00:12:06) - Yeah.

Michael Mowbray (00:12:07) - What I for the six people that are still listening because we probably.

Carl Caylor (00:12:11) - Oh, should we tell them what we're doing here.

Michael Mowbray (00:12:14) - Oh we're, we're doing random stuff right now but yeah. Which is fine. Oh what the what the podcast is about. If you don't know what the podcast is about, I mean, you're totally new. Um, we're three professional photographers have been around for a while. We're master photographers. We shoot a lot of things, photograph a lot of things, because Carl doesn't like to shoot things.

Dan Frievalt (00:12:33) - We like a lot of things.

Michael Mowbray (00:12:34) - That are moving a lot, a lot of things on fire using Photoshop.

Michael Mowbray (00:12:38) - And we get together, we have a few drinks, hence the photo happy hour name, and we talk smart. Cheers. So hopefully we've been smart so far. Smart less.

Dan Frievalt (00:12:50) - Certainly we could be in for.

Speaker 4 (00:12:53) - The.

Dan Frievalt (00:12:53) - Smart first 12 minutes. We sounded like a bunch of three old men.

Michael Mowbray (00:12:58) - Yeah, that's right, my lawn.

Dan Frievalt (00:13:00) - I'm playing it about photography, y'all whippersnappers with your fire. Well.

Michael Mowbray (00:13:09) - Yes. And but we're also, you know, we have a responsibility to educate. Educate smartly. Yes.

Carl Caylor (00:13:18) - The other thing with that fire and the the volume sports. I'm sorry, but volume sports is somewhat gotten out of hand. Yeah. I mean, I like to be able to give a client a guest the best you can do, but volume is supposed to be volume. You know, in out, and you're supposed to have other times when they can come back and get something customized. But right now, I mean, they're doing full composite work, fire and everything else. I mean, used to be you had 2015 20s with a kid, if that.

Michael Mowbray (00:13:53) - Right.

Carl Caylor (00:13:54) - Um, and I got to tell you, I'm talking to some of these coaches and some of the the leagues and stuff. They're kind of getting a little upset right now because they want you in and out, right? I mean, a lot of these photo session times are on during their practice times or their ice time for hockey or floor time for dance or whatever, and they're flipping the bill for this. So, I mean, I know my please a lot of people, but you got to have weigh it out and balance it a little bit and say, hey, if you want some custom, this is my session fee. We'll spend an hour or two with you.

Michael Mowbray (00:14:31) - Are they getting compensated for it? There's always a question I have. You know, if you're doing volume and you're supposed to be banging through, like you said, 20 20s per kid, and you're taking taking extra time and you're setting them on fire and running fog and putting gels up and stuff like that. If you're still getting a $20 package fee, you know, with a couple of five by sevens and some memory mates or whatever, then.

Michael Mowbray (00:14:57) - Why? Yeah. Do like Carl says, you know, use that to, to promote a, you know, promote something separate where you can schedule this and not take away from the practice time and tick off everybody else. And if you're not making any money now, if all of a sudden you're jumping up and you're making 200 bucks and you're doing it in a volume situation, okay, let it. But, you know, if you're still selling your same package and you're getting a 20 or $30 average. Mm.

Carl Caylor (00:15:29) - Well, I bent those rules a bit. A couple of years ago we did a wrestling team wrestling, youth wrestling league, whatever, and did all composites with all of them. And they didn't have any different orders than the year before. So the next year I went back to normal and the orders were the same again. Right. So I'm like, why? Why would I put all that time and energy into the same profit, the same net result? It doesn't make any sense.

Carl Caylor (00:15:57) - So yes.

Dan Frievalt (00:15:58) - Which which is why. And you guys know this because I'll hit you up every couple of years, like, oh, I got asked to do this volume thing. And then I start to crunch the numbers and I'm like, no, no, because I'm, I know I'm going to spend more time. I just can't help myself for one. For two, I had volumes of things that you need to do. Like anything, like any niche and photography, you have to do it several times to to really lock in, to be efficient enough for it also to be profitable. So it's like, you know what? No, it's tempting as it is. And and the hope of maybe getting other people as like a feeder into your other business, but always find that hard because they go from a, you know, a $5, eight by 10 to $100, eight by ten. It's kind of like, yeah.

Michael Mowbray (00:16:49) - They're just you can't live in both worlds. I don't think some people, some people do, but it's it's hard, especially if you're in a smaller area because it's like, well this was $10 before and it's $100 now.

Michael Mowbray (00:17:01) - Why it's a different time. Yeah. But they don't they can't. You know, quantum. I can't even.

Dan Frievalt (00:17:09) - Compute it in some aspects because. Well, because. Because I'm not going to. Because I'm going to spend more time on it, you know, it's like, you know, I just know I am it's like, I can't put that out because it's also about the brand. You know what? You know what brand? You know, protecting your brand. You want to everything that goes out to have a certain look and a certain quality of standard. So I think that people who have done well with it have branded two different companies. They have the X, Y, Z, which is their volume business, and then they have their. Uber X is their, you know, their luxury brand, you know. Exactly.

Michael Mowbray (00:17:49) - And a lot of those people hire photographers, photographers to do the volume stuff. And they're they're not visible and they do the they do the high end stuff.

Dan Frievalt (00:18:01) - They do the high end stuff. Yeah. You're paying for the artist. You know, similar even hairstylists. Like there's master hairstylist. There. It costs more for a haircut or, you know, color. Hair color.

Carl Caylor (00:18:16) - Well, there used to be some friends of ours. In fact, unfortunately, one of our Wisconsin photographers passed away during Covid. John Lippert, remember John and and Michael. They were both in U.P. quite a long ways away from each other is very long. So they're both four and a half, five hours away from each other. But they had a volume business together and, you know, they would do underclassmen in different schools and stuff like that. And anytime they were, you know, they drew out the boundaries. And anything that was close to John, they put Michael's name on it. And anytime they were close to Michael, they put John's name on it and that's how they work, that it worked out pretty sweet, you know, that way. There was nothing in the local area saying, okay, well now, John, you're how come your prices are this for volume and, and different for he never had to run into that problem because his name wasn't attached to it at all.

Carl Caylor (00:19:13) - That's smart actually.

Michael Mowbray (00:19:15) - Yeah. A couple other thoughts on volume. Since we kind of we had no intention of talking about volume today, but hey.

Carl Caylor (00:19:21) - We're going to I'll talk about there for a second. That's going to roll us into what we had intended. Well, yeah.

Michael Mowbray (00:19:25) - And that's actually going to be the second transition here.

Carl Caylor (00:19:27) - Okay. So let's do.

Michael Mowbray (00:19:28) - This. Just a just a thought because I sent out, um, sent out an email about this today that I partnered with Mitchell Moore for Volume Photo Academy. He's launching a volume photo online school. And I don't know if this will come out before it launches, but it's going to be it's one of those things where you can sign up any time of the year. But the launch is Sunday, November 5th. That's Sunday, right? Yeah, yeah. So you can save 30 bucks. Well, using the code Mo light 23 and you go to Volume Photo Academy. Com so if you're thinking about getting into volume sports or, or schools or you've started to do it and you're still trying to find your way, this is a really good way to to learn the ins and outs, the business side of it, the posing, the all the details, all the behind the scenes kind of stuff.

Michael Mowbray (00:20:28) - It's all covered in this photo volume photo Academy, volume photo Academy $3 savings.

Carl Caylor (00:20:33) - That's like four cups of coffee and.

Michael Mowbray (00:20:37) - Yeah, well, it's I think I think the whole course and it's 30 hours is plus a lot of bonus. It's 197, but you're saving $30 off of that. So it's $167. So payback on that would be pretty quick. So real quick just happen to think of that. So hey there you go. Now the other transition. Go ahead. Does he have a.

Dan Frievalt (00:20:59) - Module on lighting kids on fire. Or is that why I don't.

Michael Mowbray (00:21:03) - Think he's a light of kids on fire. But who knows.

Speaker 4 (00:21:07) - The first you.

Dan Frievalt (00:21:08) - Get a free first aid kit is one of the bonus items.

Speaker 4 (00:21:12) - Burn burn.

Michael Mowbray (00:21:14) - Stop stop, drop and roll sign and fire.

Speaker 4 (00:21:18) - Blanket and fire.

Carl Caylor (00:21:20) - Is that the burn? You know.

Speaker 4 (00:21:24) - You.

Michael Mowbray (00:21:24) - Don't need a fog machine. You just need a fire extinguisher. You just.

Speaker 4 (00:21:28) - There you go.

Michael Mowbray (00:21:30) - That'll take colored gels pretty well.

Carl Caylor (00:21:35) - Well, a new fog machines have LED colors right in them, so.

Speaker 4 (00:21:38) - Oh that's cool. Yeah.

Carl Caylor (00:21:40) - It is very cool. I'm kind.

Michael Mowbray (00:21:42) - Of bummed. I usually run my fog machine out and in the yard for Halloween, but it's going to be like 20 something here tomorrow. And no, so I don't we'll see. I don't think I'm going to run my fog machine outside.

Speaker 4 (00:21:53) - It's no all.

Carl Caylor (00:21:54) - Look really cool with it's back.

Speaker 4 (00:21:56) - In.

Michael Mowbray (00:21:57) - It's probably make it slippery or.

Dan Frievalt (00:21:59) - It's go out there and breathe on them.

Michael Mowbray (00:22:00) - Yeah there's your fog machine. Well but other thing was, one of the things we wanted to talk about today was gear. And, um, I'm, you know, I've had a lot more volume customers in the last year. It's one of the reasons why I'm partnering with Volume Photo Academy, because I think that's a good place to take the lighting business and the gear, because I get people coming to me all the time if they're going to be doing volume sports, going to be doing schools, what gear should I use? And I can tell you the two main things that everybody's getting and and the one main flash that I think is great for volume folks is the Godox a D letter, a letter D, not the number AD6 hundred b m b as in Bowens.

Michael Mowbray (00:22:51) - Amazon manual is probably the best value flash in the entire Godox lineup because it's 600 watt seconds, so it's as much power as you would ever need. You're not paying for TTL because you don't need it for volume. God forbid you would ever used. For volume. I'm sure some people do. That's a nightmare. You want every exposure to be the exact same. So does the AD 600 is what vast majority of my volume customers are using. Some are using two, some are using three, some are using two of those and an 8200 as a kicker or an 8300 pro is a kicker. So that's one segment. The other segment is they're building it all off the AD 300 Pro, because it's lightweight and portable and still pretty powerful, has a little bit of a modeling light, but most of the time they're sitting up in gyms and don't really need a modeling light, because once you once you get the first setup set and you have a test subject in there and you're lights in the right spot, if kids are standing in the same spot every time, or using one of those little floor mats where they put their feet, I don't need a modeling light.

Michael Mowbray (00:24:03) - Yeah. An axe or a staple gun. You know, if they're wearing flip flops because.

Carl Caylor (00:24:11) - Velcro works good to just stick them right down to it.

Michael Mowbray (00:24:14) - That's what you do for, like, the kids. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (00:24:16) - There you go. Hey.

Michael Mowbray (00:24:18) - Gaffer's tape just turned inside out. And.

Speaker 4 (00:24:20) - Absolutely.

Dan Frievalt (00:24:22) - So my session last week where we ran out of light because of this time of year and rain moving in, I use the modeling lamp on the AD 300 to light the subject at twilight. Worked fantastic.

Michael Mowbray (00:24:38) - Did you use the daylight or the or the tungsten? Because that's a bicolor led.

Dan Frievalt (00:24:44) - Oh, see, I didn't even know that. I didn't know how to turn it on. I was like looking on the back, and I was. I'm like, oh, here it is. So it was the tungsten. And I'm like, I'll have to adjust the color. Yeah, but I didn't know there was daylight to actually tungsten probably was the right. For the scene that I was in, but I didn't change my white balance, so I'll just have to do that.

Dan Frievalt (00:25:05) - But like you said, with the volume, be consistent. If it be consistent, even if you're consistently wrong, then you can grab all of them and change them at once. Once that was. That's always my like when I photographed weddings. It's like run from inside the church. Outside of church. I never changed my white balance. So, you know, it's fine if everything was super blue or super orange because I could change it later. And actually, Julianne costs the, uh, Photoshop, Photoshop, Lightroom, Adobe expert. I asked her, is there any change if I changed it later in Lightroom versus in camera? She said, absolutely not.

Speaker 4 (00:25:47) - No no, no. Yeah.

Michael Mowbray (00:25:51) - So I did the same thing. I would just set it to I set mine to flash white balance for most weddings, except for ceremony. If I knew, especially if it was like an in church ceremony and it was a longer one, it was like, maybe it's a Catholic wedding and they're doing full mass.

Michael Mowbray (00:26:05) - Oh, it's an hour. I would.

Speaker 4 (00:26:08) - I would, I would.

Michael Mowbray (00:26:09) - Dial into tungsten or something pretty close or just do exact Kelvin. And it's like this looks like 2834 degrees.

Carl Caylor (00:26:20) - You said just photograph a white card and click on it later.

Michael Mowbray (00:26:26) - Well, you could do that too.

Carl Caylor (00:26:29) - Speaking of which, here's some educational information for everybody. When if you wait.

Speaker 4 (00:26:35) - Are we doing.

Michael Mowbray (00:26:36) - Educational.

Speaker 4 (00:26:36) - Information? This was hey hey hey hey hey disclaimer here. Absolutely.

Carl Caylor (00:26:42) - If you're white balancing in camera I use white. Make sure you have a correct exposure first. Otherwise white doesn't mean anything in your. Your your color balance doesn't do anything for you. So gray is good to start because then you can look at your histogram and check your exposure math. Make sure the histogram is right there in the middle spiking. But if you're going to white balance in the computer in Lightroom or camera capture one or whatever you happen to be using, the gray is is better to click on than the white. Yes, I've gotten much better results that way.

Michael Mowbray (00:27:18) - And not all gray cards that you get out there anymore.

Speaker 4 (00:27:22) - Different.

Michael Mowbray (00:27:23) - Yeah, some of them have a pretty solid tint to them.

Speaker 4 (00:27:26) - Yeah. Well it's funny.

Carl Caylor (00:27:27) - When we first started in digital, a bunch of us got together, Fuzzy Dunkel and Scottie Dupree and Darton and think it.

Speaker 4 (00:27:38) - Should be dark.

Michael Mowbray (00:27:40) - Everybody's got.

Carl Caylor (00:27:41) - Yeah he was we were over and.

Dan Frievalt (00:27:44) - Real quick before you go into that story is 1900 Kelvin is the correct for fire, just so you know. No, we know it. So yeah.

Speaker 4 (00:27:58) - We all saw you clicking around.

Michael Mowbray (00:28:01) - Did you like are you clicking on fire.

Dan Frievalt (00:28:03) - Yeah. Google I googled Kelvin for fire and candle flames and fire are typically set in 1900 Kelvin areas.

Carl Caylor (00:28:10) - Remember remember back in physics class. And we used to, you know heat things over flame. Remember you don't want it right on the thing you want just above the flame because the heat is right at the top above it, not right in the flame. So that's right.

Michael Mowbray (00:28:23) - That's why you can put your finger through a candle and press all the girls like, oh, this doesn't bother me.

Michael Mowbray (00:28:28) - Yeah, move it up and do.

Carl Caylor (00:28:33) - Back to the gray card story though.

Speaker 4 (00:28:35) - Yes.

Carl Caylor (00:28:35) - Anyway, we all brought our own gray cards, our 18% gray cards we got from wherever, and every single one of them was different.

Speaker 4 (00:28:43) - Sure. Yeah.

Michael Mowbray (00:28:45) - The best one was the Kodak one I found. But yeah.

Carl Caylor (00:28:48) - Well, Gary Box actually used to have the one I used his was probably the most consistent. He might still even have the file. Of course, it's not going to do you any good anymore because it had to be printed on Kodak paper. Endura paper, um, to get the exact results that he was testing for. But moral of the story is to find what works best for you and stay consistent with that. But as long as you know that it's a true color that you are used to seeing and that it works for you, that you can click on in each in every different location that you're at. So. There. We got some education along the way.

Dan Frievalt (00:29:31) - That's why like that passport, the.

Dan Frievalt (00:29:34) - Yeah. Because it had different it went, you know, different squares from warmer the cooler gray. So you could kind of.

Carl Caylor (00:29:42) - Well that's what Gary's was about to. They had gray in the middle. White on top, black on bottom. It's a little strip of each. And then on one side was great. Graduated from warm to cool and just the opposite on the other side. So if you wanted something to look a little bit warmer, you'd click in different places along the way in that graduated area to bring up a warmer area or a cooler area or something like that. So you could kind of get it to your taste. And if you found the area that you liked the most, that was like your brand, because some people mean when used to print at the lab, there was some some studios that wanted everything to be, in my opinion, oversaturated and way too warm. But that was their brand, you know, that's what that was. There. Look. So I know you were one of them there, I know.

Dan Frievalt (00:30:33) - Yeah, I tend to go a lot more warm and warmer side and saturated side.

Carl Caylor (00:30:39) - And true to it, that's what matters.

Speaker 4 (00:30:41) - Yeah.

Michael Mowbray (00:30:44) - It makes me think I wonder where my passport is because I've.

Speaker 4 (00:30:48) - Got two advance.

Carl Caylor (00:30:49) - The biggest thing is you got to make sure to with your passports is don't ever touch them. Yeah. If you have a.

Dan Frievalt (00:30:54) - And when we're talking passports, we're talking the.

Speaker 4 (00:30:58) - Macbeth one color.

Dan Frievalt (00:30:59) - Color checker.

Speaker 4 (00:31:01) - Yeah.

Carl Caylor (00:31:02) - Um.

Dan Frievalt (00:31:04) - Color checker.

Carl Caylor (00:31:04) - Passport group has them now. Yeah. Yeah.

Dan Frievalt (00:31:08) - Exactly.

Carl Caylor (00:31:08) - Macro.

Dan Frievalt (00:31:09) - Yeah. Google again.

Michael Mowbray (00:31:11) - Well, I think. I think the brand is Macbeth. So. Yes.

Dan Frievalt (00:31:16) - Really no.

Speaker 4 (00:31:17) - Color? No.

Carl Caylor (00:31:17) - That's actually.

Speaker 4 (00:31:19) - Yeah. The one I use is.

Dan Frievalt (00:31:21) - Yeah. Color checker, color checker.

Carl Caylor (00:31:24) - Passport. And you can get it from the macro.

Dan Frievalt (00:31:27) - Right. From. Right. Yeah. Or the MacBook or wherever, wherever you get your. Passports. Except for the government one that's a little bit different. And that takes you like 6 or 8 months.

Dan Frievalt (00:31:43) - By the way, another pro tip since you're jumping all over tangents, if you are traveling out of the country, depending on which country you're traveling to. Make sure your passport is not only. Valid. Each country has their own set of rules. So for instance Mexico, you have to it's like three months prior to your expiration date. Other countries might be six months, might be a year. So your passport may not expire for a year. But that doesn't mean that the country are going to is going to actually.

Carl Caylor (00:32:16) - Take it.

Dan Frievalt (00:32:17) - That passport. So you have to renew.

Michael Mowbray (00:32:20) - That's Macbeth. Great tag.

Carl Caylor (00:32:22) - There it is.

Speaker 4 (00:32:23) - So don't don't don't be.

Speaker 5 (00:32:25) - Telling me Macbeth might do something else too, but.

Carl Caylor (00:32:31) - Macbeth is the was. What we used to have. Is that the gold standard?

Dan Frievalt (00:32:35) - See, I always use the color checker. So that's a.

Carl Caylor (00:32:37) - Color checker is what it's called.

Michael Mowbray (00:32:39) - A color. It's a great tag. Macbeth color checker. So anyway. Oh.

Dan Frievalt (00:32:44) - I see what you're saying.

Speaker 4 (00:32:46) - Yeah.

Dan Frievalt (00:32:47) - This is X right. So there's at the same thing there.

Carl Caylor (00:32:51) - Well they have two different products. Two they have one that's just gray and more of a off white. Yeah. And they have the one that has all the colors in it.

Michael Mowbray (00:33:00) - And then you get the one that has it opens up and it's on each side and you're like.

Speaker 4 (00:33:03) - But don't ever touch them.

Carl Caylor (00:33:05) - Don't ever touch the colors and.

Speaker 4 (00:33:07) - Touch.

Carl Caylor (00:33:07) - Them. No, because you're just going to mess it up.

Speaker 4 (00:33:10) - Tell them you can scratch, scratch. Yeah, yeah.

Carl Caylor (00:33:15) - Don't touch it.

Dan Frievalt (00:33:17) - No. And that's what everyone does. It's like, hold this. And they put their fingers.

Speaker 4 (00:33:19) - Don't touch it.

Carl Caylor (00:33:20) - Said you want you to hold this, but you got to hold it with your two fingers right here on the outside. Do not touch the inside of this hole because it'll blow up.

Dan Frievalt (00:33:28) - And I always say, take one shot like this. Turn your head to the.

Speaker 4 (00:33:31) - Left side.

Dan Frievalt (00:33:32) - Turn your head to the right and there's your official mugshot.

Dan Frievalt (00:33:37) - They take their fingerprints and. Yeah, session is done. Yeah.

Michael Mowbray (00:33:42) - So, talking about color. And talking about everything else. Some other interesting stuff that just came in. Godox came out with the LDCs 50 and the LDCs 100 are RGB panels. So they started, you know, this whole RGB LED just keeps getting they keep adding more stuff, bigger stuff. These panels are very cool. I don't know if you saw the stuff that Jen Lewis shot last week with the race car girl.

Carl Caylor (00:34:10) - Well, that was pretty cool.

Speaker 4 (00:34:11) - That red one.

Michael Mowbray (00:34:12) - Yeah. Well, she was like combining blue and red and some other stuff. So she's.

Speaker 4 (00:34:17) - Pretty.

Carl Caylor (00:34:18) - Awesome.

Michael Mowbray (00:34:18) - So these panels are pretty portable. Can run them off a battery or you can plug them in, but they're getting up to be enough power now where you can do a lot of really cool things with them. Yet they're not like huge. So.

Speaker 4 (00:34:33) - Pretty cool.

Carl Caylor (00:34:33) - And LEDs are kind of getting to be the way to go. I mean, because you can change the colors on them, right?

Michael Mowbray (00:34:40) - Yeah, I just pull it, you pull up the app and you just dial in your color.

Michael Mowbray (00:34:44) - The only thing they can't do is they, they're they can't compete with flash for power. No.

Speaker 4 (00:34:52) - So you shoot.

Michael Mowbray (00:34:53) - You have to shoot a higher ISO. You can't be shooting a really fast shutter speed. They'll you'll won't be able to freeze motion. So if they could do all that stuff, then hallelujah. We wouldn't need flash anymore. But the problem is that it'd be too strong for anybody to see. Right.

Carl Caylor (00:35:10) - People are going to melt. They're going to have to squint and.

Speaker 4 (00:35:13) - Exactly.

Carl Caylor (00:35:14) - Yeah. It's pretty dark on bright the way it is. Well, I.

Michael Mowbray (00:35:17) - Had to do it in last week for Head Shot, and he had blue eyes, and I was using a 300 watt led for the main and a double diffused softbox and super squinty.

Carl Caylor (00:35:29) - So it's going to be the same way. He wouldn't be able to see, he wouldn't be able to keep open.

Michael Mowbray (00:35:33) - Had to dial it back. So yeah, everybody's like yeah I can get give me the biggest LED you guy was like, well, unless you're lighting a film set and you're going to be 30ft away.

Michael Mowbray (00:35:44) - No, because people can't tolerate the light.

Speaker 4 (00:35:47) - Huh.

Carl Caylor (00:35:49) - That is the advantage of the strobes for sure.

Dan Frievalt (00:35:52) - So well. And then hybrid eventually will be. And they already work in some.

Michael Mowbray (00:36:00) - They have some, but they but they they're they're like an El Camino, you know, they're right. It's not it's not a good car. It's not a good truck. And that's the same way with the hybrid, the LED flashes. It's not a good flash. It's not the problem with those those hybrid LEDs too, on top of it, how they're doing the flashes, they're like popping the LED, but it doesn't freeze motion. So one of the biggest benefits of of LED or of flash is that that short flash duration that freezes motion. Well, the LED, it's like a really long duration pop, right. So it doesn't freeze motion. So then you're still going to have work?

Dan Frievalt (00:36:44) - I thought there was I thought they were just a flash and led. But they're popping the LEDs, right I see right I guess that makes sense.

Dan Frievalt (00:36:51) - I was thinking it was just a LED in front of a flash. To me, that would make more sense.

Carl Caylor (00:36:58) - Remember Larsen did that. Did that. Um, problem is that they weren't using LEDs. They were using like, daylight bulbs. And the bulbs are in the way of the flash.

Speaker 4 (00:37:10) - Oh, yeah.

Carl Caylor (00:37:11) - So then it shadowed, created shadow from it and it's like, okay, you might as well just use constantly because it yeah, one's getting in the way of the other. So. That's something to kind of consider as well as the.

Speaker 4 (00:37:25) - Worst of.

Michael Mowbray (00:37:25) - Both worlds. Yeah.

Carl Caylor (00:37:27) - It's the same thing is the camera pick the right body, pick the right medium for the job that you have at hand. You know, I mean, the the LEDs right now I'm head for headshots.

Speaker 4 (00:37:42) - Oh yeah.

Carl Caylor (00:37:44) - Absolutely. Way easier and better and better on the eyes and everything else. But, you know, mean kids moving around and motion and or trying to balance things out with seniors jumping around sometimes or bright light areas.

Carl Caylor (00:38:02) - Strobes is the way to go. There's no question about it.

Michael Mowbray (00:38:05) - Well, I had this conversation this morning with a customer about photographs, dogs, and there's some dogs that just can't take the flash. So she wants to have an LED set up. And it's like, well, just so you know, you're gonna have to shoot higher ISO. And if you've got a dog that's moving around a lot and you're going to shoot super high ISO in order to get a shutter speed that is.

Speaker 4 (00:38:28) - Fast, which means.

Carl Caylor (00:38:30) - That you're going to have to have a camera that can handle those high Asos and have good noise. So which most.

Michael Mowbray (00:38:37) - Of the new ones can, you know. But if you're shooting an old five D mark two. No.

Speaker 4 (00:38:42) - No not a chance.

Dan Frievalt (00:38:46) - Well and that's kind of the thing with gear these days. Like when, you know, when we started it was a few lights to pick from. Yeah a few cameras that pick from things didn't really update that often. You had Photoshop.

Dan Frievalt (00:39:00) - Now it's got to be overwhelming if you're a new photographer, and I know it is overwhelming because I get questions all the time in my insiders group. Like, you know, same thing. There was Pro Select, that was your software. Now there's Pro Select, there's Fundy, there's N view, there's, you know, couple different types, you know and you know lighting. There's so many different types of lighting and different changes all the time. And you know that's why it's good to have someone like you Michael. It's always hey if someone goes, what light do I need? You know, we're going to ask or you ask, what type of photography do you do? You know, we're going to cater your assist or you're going to cater a system that works best for them?

Michael Mowbray (00:39:43) - Well, that's a great example. Was the customer I mentioned that, you know, she messaged me on Facebook saying what led should she get it. This is a half hour conversation through Facebook Messenger educating and asking and stuff like that.

Michael Mowbray (00:39:59) - And the bottom line is she thinks she knows what direction she's going to go, but she's got a lot of information she's got to parse through now. And actually, it would have been easier to just say, well, buy this one, you know? But did that, would that solve the problem? If you if I didn't take the time to go through. Okay, you're gonna have to understand how this is going to work. And do you have dogs that have sensitive to constant light, you know, um, yeah. She has dogs that squint sometimes when she photographs them outside, it's like. Never really thought about that dog squint.

Speaker 4 (00:40:35) - I'm not sure about that one, but. Okay. Yeah. When they're.

Carl Caylor (00:40:39) - Tired. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (00:40:42) - But she said.

Michael Mowbray (00:40:43) - Yeah. So I trust her. She's like an expert in that field.

Speaker 4 (00:40:45) - So pretty dogs. Spooky dogs. Probably not your.

Dan Frievalt (00:40:50) - Dogs. Your dog's got a funny face. That's not his face. That's. But ou could like that treat.

Dan Frievalt (00:40:57) - I just fed him then.

Speaker 4 (00:41:03) - All right, there we go.

Dan Frievalt (00:41:05) - Yeah, just make a drink.

Michael Mowbray (00:41:08) - Just shave his butt and teach him to walk backwards.

Speaker 4 (00:41:11) - Yeah.

Dan Frievalt (00:41:12) - Is that naked gun? I think it's a naked gun or something.

Speaker 4 (00:41:16) - Two and a half or something like that.

Carl Caylor (00:41:17) - Two and a.

Dan Frievalt (00:41:18) - Half. Two and.

Speaker 4 (00:41:18) - Then.

Dan Frievalt (00:41:20) - Well, yeah, just, you know, like, like you said, for the volume, it's like, well, why pay extra? Someone's going to be like, you know, for a TTL, you know, why would I get the I just get the 600 or whatever with the TTL? Well, no. If you're not using TTL, ever, don't pay. For the extra.

Carl Caylor (00:41:40) - So speaking of that, somebody asked a while back about remember we we all had the four by six soft boxes back in the day. Yep. And of course Larson isn't around anymore and that product isn't available anymore. And everyone's like, well, how can we get the same kind of light? And like, you have your 600 or your 300 or 400 light and you have your rolling reflectors right now with the translucent material, it's the same thing, right?

Speaker 4 (00:42:11) - Right.

Michael Mowbray (00:42:12) - Well, you guys are hitting on like every customer interaction I've had in the last week, which is kind of interesting because the whole TTL manual, I was talking to somebody about that. But yeah, I had somebody who wanted to spec a because they've always used the Larsen four by six and you can't get them anymore. And they're trying to outfit multiple studios now. And they wanted a four by six softbox. I said good luck.

Speaker 4 (00:42:36) - Yeah.

Dan Frievalt (00:42:36) - Oh I have one for sale contact I.

Carl Caylor (00:42:39) - Got two you can have I mean that's kind.

Dan Frievalt (00:42:40) - Of give it away. Oh sorry. Sorry. Yeah.

Michael Mowbray (00:42:43) - Well they're going to I mean they potentially might need them for 100 studios. You're not going to find 100 used ones. But he's like why can't I get that? And it's like that's kind of a unique American thing, you know, that was created by Larsen. You go around the world. And you don't see four by six soft boxes. And I've had I can't tell you how many conversations I've had with different manufacturers over in China about.

Michael Mowbray (00:43:07) - I would like to have you guys make a pop ups four by six soft boxes. I know I could sell a bajillion of them because everybody, you know, transitioning over from the Larsons, they won't do it. They'd have to make their. They'd have to make all new moulds for this. And the only place they could sell it would be America, because there's no market for it in Southeast Asia or Europe. So like, okay, I get it. So okay, then use a 60 inch octa box. Is the like quality going to be that much different between a four by six and a 60 inch octa box? No, not really much. You know, the methodology on how you use it is that four by six, I used to be able to put laterally and reach out and grab the edge of it and be able to feather it back and forth while I'm still standing a camera position. That was nice, but in terms of the actual light quality.

Speaker 4 (00:44:05) - No. Well.

Dan Frievalt (00:44:06) - Yeah. That's the same with, you know, the big.

Dan Frievalt (00:44:11) - Thing where pro photo is all their accurate color temperature from flash to flash, and it's so accurate. I'm like, really like how you know, not for me, not for probably 90% of the photographers out there. They. Is it going to? That they need that tighter restrictions on color temperature. Maybe I'm wrong, but you know, the way I use it.

Speaker 4 (00:44:34) - You know, and.

Michael Mowbray (00:44:35) - Godox is quarter of the price. If you're not changing your your power setting by a lot, you're not going to get color differences. So if you're if you're a quarter power and you shoot 100 shots, they're going to be the same color. Now if you shoot, you know, 50 shots at quarter power and then 50 shots at 128th power, there might be a couple hundred degree color difference, but that's a huge difference in power output. So and you're going to see that with pro photo.

Speaker 4 (00:45:10) - By the way.

Carl Caylor (00:45:11) - Speaking of that, I had a photographer we met last week talking about a bunch of images for image review, and I noticed in most of the images that he sent over that the accents were all very, very noticeably cooler.

Carl Caylor (00:45:34) - Sure than.

Speaker 4 (00:45:35) - They probably use a.

Michael Mowbray (00:45:36) - Different brand softbox.

Carl Caylor (00:45:38) - Well, that's what I asked him. I said, you know what? What are you doing? And he has he's got two different brands going on. And I'm like, oh, you might want to unify this because you're going to have a little bit cooler just because of the the difference of reflecting versus, you know, that reflect an angle. Right. But. Not that much. I mean, it was blue and orange.

Speaker 4 (00:46:04) - Yeah, it was noticeable contrast.

Carl Caylor (00:46:07) - So.

Michael Mowbray (00:46:07) - Oh, you can see if you can see a 12 1500 degree difference between different. Well, okay, let's put it this way. If somebody's got an old photogenic strobe as their main and they're using an older softbox that's shifted a little bit in color and they're using a newer, maybe a pop up box from like Westcott as their kicker. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (00:46:28) - Yeah.

Michael Mowbray (00:46:29) - You could see a 13 to 1500 degree difference between your main and your and your. Yeah, that's noticeable like.

Carl Caylor (00:46:37) - Blue and yellow.

Speaker 4 (00:46:38) - Oh yeah.

Michael Mowbray (00:46:39) - Yeah. Because the ones, the ones probably shooting around 4800 to 5000, that's your main and then you're the ones may be shooting around 65, 65. It's going to be a little. So we're getting like really scientific on you guys here. We just lost the rest of the people.

Dan Frievalt (00:46:54) - Or if you you did a shoot a couple of weeks ago and you put a gel inside of your sophomore and.

Speaker 4 (00:47:00) - You forgot about it.

Dan Frievalt (00:47:01) - Then you forgot about it, you're looking like, what the hell is wrong? Why is my.

Speaker 4 (00:47:05) - Color? We are. Is this from experienced in? Yeah.

Dan Frievalt (00:47:09) - A friend told me this story once, not mentioning his name. He did have a goatee and yeah, look like James Hetfield, but.

Michael Mowbray (00:47:23) - I can still top that one, because twice in my career I've set up the set up the flash and the softbox and I fire and I'm like, that's not nearly enough output and fire a few more times. Fire a few more times is like, why am I not getting enough output? Did you start to smell a little? A little burnt plastic smell?

Speaker 4 (00:47:44) - Didn't off the cover twice?

Michael Mowbray (00:47:48) - Yep.

Speaker 4 (00:47:49) - Yeah.

Dan Frievalt (00:47:50) - See, that doesn't happen to me because when I get those covers was I toss it, the light gets all scratched up and bent and whatever, but at least I never have the cover on.

Speaker 4 (00:48:02) - That's what reflectors.

Carl Caylor (00:48:03) - For protects it.

Speaker 4 (00:48:05) - Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah.

Dan Frievalt (00:48:09) - Oh gosh. That's. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (00:48:11) - Yes. See I sorry. So we covered.

Michael Mowbray (00:48:14) - We covered a lot of good territory today.

Speaker 4 (00:48:17) - We did.

Carl Caylor (00:48:17) - Yeah I'll tell you what. You should have saw me on Saturday. I had I had molds flying all over the place. I had a five light setup going on for a trick or treaters coming through. We had an awesome. I even used the hairline.

Speaker 4 (00:48:32) - Wow. I know I haven't used the.

Michael Mowbray (00:48:34) - Air light in a long time.

Speaker 4 (00:48:35) - And background.

Carl Caylor (00:48:38) - Well, you know how we talked about that. Didn't you know the volume is air lighter a blade?

Dan Frievalt (00:48:44) - Was it a blade light?

Speaker 4 (00:48:45) - Yeah.

Carl Caylor (00:48:46) - Well, some of them had blades.

Dan Frievalt (00:48:48) - A shiv.

Carl Caylor (00:48:50) - Costume though. But, uh, you know, wanted to be a little bit nicer than just.

Carl Caylor (00:48:58) - You know, a normal picture of trick or treaters. Right. Even though it was for free. No charge. But I was trying to get people indoor. We're trying to. We're trying to build a new business here, you know? And so we had 100 different groupings of kids, over 300 people I photographed in a two hour span of time come through here in costumes, getting them out of coats and out of strollers and going. And most of them. I was really surprised that most of them, we ended up photographing with mom and dad and the kids and everybody else, and all together and all the cousins, the grandparents. It was great. That's cool.

Michael Mowbray (00:49:37) - The more people you reach.

Carl Caylor (00:49:39) - Absolutely. You know, but to do that and to do it the way I wanted, you needed a lot of equipment. I mean, I used two roller reflectors. So we have a lot of fill on one side. Use the main two kickers. We had hair light going on and we had to fill light beside the rolling reflectors so that because I knew darn well, you know, anticipated that we were going to end up with groups.

Carl Caylor (00:50:04) - And of course we ended up with groups that even exceeded almost exceeded the background, which, by the way, we'll put it in a little plug for Background Town. It was it worked out really well. Man I'll tell you what. That that new dream class stuff. Not new, I guess, but the dream cloth stuff. It doesn't wrinkle like you have the steamer at the studio. We can steam it real quick. I'm, like, gonna need it.

Speaker 4 (00:50:33) - Yeah.

Carl Caylor (00:50:33) - Took it out of the box, unfold it. Threw it up there. Oh, crap. Like, this is awesome. And it looks like an actual door. It was. It was freaking awesome. So kids like that, the parents liked it. And we went through because it was consistent enough. And again, you do the same thing over and over again. Um, we got done photographing at little after one or I waited around until one. We were done before that, but waited until one. I downloaded everything, converted everything, re cropped everything to eight by ten crop ratio and loaded them on photo bins.

Carl Caylor (00:51:15) - And by what fourth? 4:00. Just after 4:00 they were all out and ready for them to download for free.

Michael Mowbray (00:51:25) - That's awesome.

Carl Caylor (00:51:26) - That was pretty cool.

Michael Mowbray (00:51:27) - But that's because everything was lit properly. Everything was exposed properly.

Speaker 4 (00:51:33) - Yeah.

Carl Caylor (00:51:33) - Don't have to touch anything. You're crop because I just wanted eight by ten format. So I had to re crop everything.

Michael Mowbray (00:51:38) - So. So go ahead.

Dan Frievalt (00:51:42) - Oh. How many did you light on fire though?

Carl Caylor (00:51:44) - None. Zero.

Michael Mowbray (00:51:45) - Oh no no. The important question is what Candy did you give away?

Carl Caylor (00:51:50) - We gave away. Well, that was one of the things.

Dan Frievalt (00:51:52) - Free photo candy.

Speaker 4 (00:51:55) - 20 bucks. That's what I was.

Carl Caylor (00:51:56) - Going to do. I said I was going to just do photos and set of candy, because I'd rather not have the kids get too many. They're going to have enough sweets the way it is. Our downtown administration said, nope. If you want to be part of our promotional things, you have to have at least 3000 pieces of candy because they expect between 2500 and 3000 kids coming through the downtown district between the 50 some participating businesses downtown Holland and.

Carl Caylor (00:52:23) - We had some leftover, but not much and most companies or most businesses. This is the first my first year through this. So I'm bringing them inside, you know, and I want them coming through the door and going into the gallery and getting their candy and getting photographed and out. A lot of the kids came in, grab candy and left because my dad stayed outside most of the businesses, they didn't have people come inside at all. They didn't want to interrupt their normal business stuff. So they had people standing outside handing out candy outside their shops. Um.

Speaker 4 (00:52:55) - You gotta get them in the door. Do it. Yeah.

Carl Caylor (00:52:57) - They just keep everybody outside. Um, so we were a little bit different, and that's okay to be different. So. Yeah.

Michael Mowbray (00:53:05) - You got a visual business too.

Carl Caylor (00:53:07) - So we have a visual business? Not that.

Michael Mowbray (00:53:08) - Other businesses. You don't have to be able to see things, but, you know, really have to see things.

Carl Caylor (00:53:14) - We really need them to see things.

Carl Caylor (00:53:18) - So it's fun. It's a lot of fun. We had some cool costumes.

Michael Mowbray (00:53:20) - Did you use a boo light?

Carl Caylor (00:53:22) - I used a boo light.

Speaker 4 (00:53:23) - Three of them.

Michael Mowbray (00:53:24) - Three bullets. Bullets, bullets. So you put behind it and it's like ghostly boo.

Speaker 4 (00:53:33) - All right, any parting shots?

Carl Caylor (00:53:36) - I found a new brandy. Well, we'll talk about that next time.

Speaker 4 (00:53:41) - No.

Dan Frievalt (00:53:42) - Oh, yeah. Yeah, I made a I made a Halloween drink where I infused whiskey or bourbon with cinnamon clothes and apple.

Michael Mowbray (00:53:54) - Thought you're going to say with candy corn.

Speaker 4 (00:53:57) - Oh.

Carl Caylor (00:53:58) - No, that would be wrong.

Michael Mowbray (00:54:00) - Cinnamon, cloves. An apple. That's good.

Dan Frievalt (00:54:03) - Oh, it's. It was good. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (00:54:06) - Okay.

Dan Frievalt (00:54:07) - It was tasty in a cold, cold, chilly night.

Speaker 4 (00:54:14) - It's going to be Tuesday.

Carl Caylor (00:54:16) - It's going to be snowing tomorrow when the kids are old. Trick or treating.

Michael Mowbray (00:54:18) - Yeah, it's real feel. They said it's like 20. It's going to be like 23 hours. Yeah. That's I think extra Halloween candy.

Speaker 4 (00:54:28) - Yeah.

Carl Caylor (00:54:30) - Exactly.

Michael Mowbray (00:54:32) - All right. Nice. That's it for us, guys. Till next time. You guys are still here.

Speaker 4 (00:54:37) - Oh, I'm so nervous.

Michael Mowbray (00:54:40) - Ferris Bueller?

Speaker 4 (00:54:41) - You still here? Hey, to you guys. Go home, go home. Go watch.

Carl Caylor (00:54:47) - Football. Go!

Dan Frievalt (00:54:50) - Oh, yeah, Monday night football. All right.

Michael Mowbray (00:54:52) - Till next time.

Speaker 4 (00:54:53) - Cheers. Cheers. Cheers.

Speaker 6 (00:54:55) - Last call.

Michael Mowbray (00:54:58) - You've been listening to the Photo Happy Hour podcast. Be sure to hit that subscribe button to not miss a single action packed episode and join our Photo Happy Hour Facebook group, where we'll post links to the stuff we all talk about. You can find my Mo Lite gear online at Go Mo Light. That's Geo Ligety. You can find the Facebook page under Mo Lights store, and I also run the Godox Flash Help group on Facebook. You can find Dan Senior Unlocked website at Seniors Unlocked. That's seniors with an S at the end unlocked.com and the Facebook group under Seniors unlocked. And you can find Carl's coaching corner at CC photo coach CC photo coach.com.

Michael Mowbray (00:55:46) - Till next time. Cheers to you.

Speaker 5 (00:55:58) - You don't know the power of this podcast, you must obey me and subscribe. When I first started listening, I was but the learner. Now I am the master. Subscribe now. It is useless to resist.